Thursday, July 17, 2008

'Creative' Marketing

Sorry if i dissappointed you guys because i don't update so often. I think rule of thumbs will be checking this blog once every week =p

Today we gonna talk about 'creative' marketing. *dedicated to anyone who took marketing*

Last weekend, i was dragged by my father to attend a business opportunity presentation by Acescube Sdn Bhd, a 'consulting' company based in KL. My father's friend told him that the firm can help ppl to save interest on mortgage loan by as much as 50%. Sounds good?

At first, i wasn't that skeptical since it was introduced by the friend. A little background of this friend of my father. He run a business which help to reduce interest on your credit card from 18% p.a (that's if you can't settle your monthly payment) to only 5% or 6%. How he able to do it? Through loopholes. What loopholes? Installments plan usually offered by the likes of Sen Heng, Courts Mammoth.

How it works? They will clear your credit card balance with the bank first. Then, you will be issued an invoice by the same amount (buying TV, fridge etc..which of course didn't take place) and again, swipe your credit card. Ta~Da~ Interest reduced.

Back to the presentation, it was very very very very misleading. Some important facts was omitted, only the one that contributes to their cause are shown and their reasoning are flawed (but most ppl don't noticed it if you didn't give a deep thought)

1. Abuse of graph presentation
2. Emphasizing the 50% interest saving you can make, repayment period will be halved while omitting the important thing, monthly repayment amount ! Common sense tell that if your repayment period is shorter, total interest on your loan will be lesser, isn't it? But they portrayed it as if with their methods, they can achieve 'both benefits'. And of course, if they put in that the method requires higher monthly repayment, ppl will actually knew that any Tom, Dick and Harry can do it by themselves.

So how much they charged for their 'methodology'? 1% of the total loan amount, which means a few thousand dollars. What do you get from the service? You get a schedule that ask you to pay a certain amount every month, and in the end, you will see that u actually save 50% interest and repayment period is halved !!

What is really their 'methodology'? Nothing involving loopholes. It's a matter of calculation and formula to re-adjust the loan, which can be easily be done through programs or even Excel. In short, the 'methodology' does not do any shit for you.

But still, u can actually see ppl are amazed and got confidence in this 'product' after going through the brainwashing presentation. It's a lucractive business after all. Lots of potentials customers (which not as smart as me..hoho). Who don't have loans from banks nowadays?

In the end, should also give credits to the people who figured this out because he's a bloody damn good marketer. This thing original form should be 1) tips and tricks to manage your loan from personal finance books and/or 2) financial planning services offered by consulting firm. He repackaged the whole thing into a 'product' and sell it through MLM structure. His firm take 70%, sales agent 30%. What his firm do? Just calculate the schedule and recruit mislead more sales agent to sign up.

I hope they can sleep well at night

32 comments:

  1. Thanks for sharing this...
    Actually, i'm planning to join this company as my part time job on next week.

    But I'm curious to know why u are mentioned this company was misleading the sales agent & also is a lucractive business...

    I need your advise here before I step out...What is the actual tricks they use on the mortgage reduction....Thank you verymuch if you can share with me more....

    ReplyDelete
  2. Possible to update me today, if this is a cheating game for sure I won't be join & don't want spoil mr reputation in market. Thanks...

    ReplyDelete
  3. Opps sorry, just saw your comments.

    Basically, their 'mortgage reduction method' is about asking you to increase your monthly payment. And of course, we know, if we pay more monthly, the loan will be repaid faster, and the total interest will be lesser too, right?

    But how they do their marketing (or so called misleading)? They said through their method, you can achieve shorter period of repayment AND lower interest paid.

    Compare the 1st and 2nd paragraph statement. It's the same result (shorter period, less interest) but take notice of the message that it conveys.

    And what is their product? A list of schedule of monthly repayment that you need to make. And of course, the monthly payment sum will be higher.

    And to add more effect, they will say that they 99.99% guarantee that the payment period and interest will reduce by 50%. Of course, that only applies IF you follow the schedule by paying more monthly.

    And do their method create any added value? Absolutely NOT. It's is actually something that you can do it on your ownself !!

    Hope this clarifies

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  4. Thanks....for your explanation.
    I agreed on that.
    One more is this is legal or not?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Subjective. Certainly they didn't break any banking rules etc.

    BUT, i am not sure if consumers can take action against them for deceptive and misleading conduct. (Not sure bout Malaysia law, i'm educated in Australian law).

    Paying a few thousand just for a schedule of payment is just plain stupid

    ReplyDelete
  6. ok, but they have a team of lawyer support them of this activity...

    I dun think Lawyer are stupid right?

    ReplyDelete
  7. That's why i said they didn't break any rules.

    Do you know what are the lawyer for in this scheme? The lawyer is used to 'guarantee that your interest paid and period of repayment will reduced by 50% under their Slash Interest Methodology, with 99% accuracy, right?"

    They put in the lawyer to make it more credible and create the wow effect. The lawyer is basically earning a fee just by stamping the documents.

    Why so? Something that is mathematically derived can achieve 100% accuracy anyway (they put 99% just to be safe). Will the lawyer have any liability issue? Absolutely not.

    The hidden side is their SIM method will only achieve the desire 50% reduction IF YOU FOLLOW THE SCHEDULE.

    If you didn't follow strictly as the schedule of payment they give you, you definitely can't hold them liable if the 50% reduction is not achieved.

    At the end of the day, it falls back to your ownself. Which is to make higher monthly repayment. Something that you can do it on your own instead of paying several thousands just for a schedule of payment.

    Lawyers certainly are not stupid. But not all are honest and not a greedy bastard. :)

    ReplyDelete
  8. Thanks for your clear explanation...

    ReplyDelete
  9. hai.i would like to know which program can use to calculate the interest saving ?or the excel is the one that we use normal or have to install softwave. thanks ya ?

    ReplyDelete
  10. You can use excel if you want to.

    Or use some mortgage loan calculation program. Like this 1. http://www.ambg.com.my/personal/financialtools/homefinancing.asp

    ReplyDelete
  11. But banks provide different packages different criteria diff facility even same bank provide diff terms n conditions. with one formula can it work for all? i heard company of mortgage reduction one of them recently being sue for accusing inaccuracy of schedule, i suppose there's a reason for 99% rite? other than paying extra i suppose i know it as well why pay them, i've went there and they explain few and showed me few docs which is mainly not about reduction anymore. even my friend as an accountant gave a hint that they r something. clarify me, and the reason i went there is also that my flexiloan when i pay extra it went to something call advance payment i notice it when i know this company.
    i still considerin of having it solve, any other way? some people say write a letter, but how? and about our statement how to prove and calculate it if it's wrong and they also say interest is diff monthly so how do we chase baack a 50% if we wanna do it ourselve for free? thanks Tohff, u in banking line?

    ReplyDelete
  12. I would appreciate if you could write in clear and understandable formatting. But, anyway...

    The main point is not whether we can achieve 50% interest reduction on our own or not.

    The issue here is whether the service that these mortgage reduction agency provide is actually value-added or not.

    For example, let say you want to lose weight. So you go find a person who claim that he can help you to reduce your weight. And what he instruct you to do is to do 200 sit-ups per day. Will you pay him for his 'service'? Same case here.

    To achieve 50% reduction in interest and repayment period is a piece of cake since it's just a mathematical problem. It will get slightly different with different criteria or T&C but it is still do-able.

    Banks put the extra amount that you repay as advance payment (instead of reducing your loan principal amount) because they want to earn more interest. Again, this (the letter) is something you can do on yourself. It is just that people normally do not realise this since they don't bother to read their loan statement.

    Last but not least, i am not from the banking line. But are you one of their agen? :)

    ReplyDelete
  13. First off, all of us should salute tohff7 a.k.a "Mr. Know-It-All".

    He knows everything and anything.
    He is too smart, bright, clever and bla bla bla...& bla bla bla...
    He is also too over confident.

    AND He is also too ARROGANT...
    BUT,actually he is too IGNORANT.

    when ARROGANCE & IGNORANCE collide,
    is called when STUPIDITY strike!

    No Action, Talk Only (N.A.T.O), maybe he is one of the member group or maybe a leader. haha..

    Why don't you PROVE US WRONG?
    And make MONEY from your so called 'excel also could do it'.
    And calculate for 99% accuracy.
    Then, u r smart...
    And alot of ppl need you HELP!

    ReplyDelete
  14. First of all, thanks for leaving a comment on my blog.

    Too smart, bright and smart? Can't agree more. But definitely not over confident.

    You know, this blog and this post is and has always been a personal blog. I don't really expect people to google and come to this blog.

    Prove you guys wrong? I already proved it so in this blog post. Or else, why are you so angry? Did i smear your reputation and ruin your 'business'?

    99% accuracy is totally not the main point. The main point is : What the client get for the fees they paid? A schedule that ask you to make HIGHER monthly repayment, so that your repayment period and interest cost is reduced?

    So which causes the reduction in interest and tenure? The schedule or the HIGHER monthly repapyment (that you can do it on your own)?

    And no, i don't want to make this kind of money. It's cheating :p

    I hope you can sleep well in night

    ReplyDelete
  15. Bravo MR. Kit!

    KNOWING and Business i Totally DIfferent.

    I think TOHff should Drive Helicopter la.. SInce he is so Clever!!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Now now, stop the flame. he has his point of view anyway. If u r just posting for d sake of no reason den no reason explainin, but if there's a point where u find it possible n reasonble n worth payin for the client of what we said, come over i'll tell u why.
    why 99% required n why paying "higher" is incorrect. fact is jus to prove to client or curious kind like u why it's not adding money instead paying less, why need 99% n why are they different, back to what u said, ppl do pay for doin somethin u already know, like docs, lawyers, coaches , marie france, gyms so on.
    but of cuz it ends here, u can make an appointment with i'll tell u why, being respectful to lenders n clients. else u might as well stop ur post n continue ur own blog.
    Sincerely,
    Chris

    ReplyDelete
  17. First of all, please write proper english with punctuation etc lar. hard to read lar brother.

    why 99% and why paying higher is incorrect?

    You just answer me 1 thing. Doesn't the monthly repayment of your method will be HIGHER than before? If the answer is no, i will delete this post forever.

    Or you want give some lame excuse like, "Where got higher? You can save 50% interest (or how many thousand interest) by just paying higher amount (a few hundreds more) every month. See the huge savings you can make!!!"

    And the docs, lawyers, coaches, maria france, gyms and so on argument, it's totally other thing. The services they provide is not something that you can do on your own. If you yourself suddenly fall sick, don't tell me you can diagnose yourself? Or draft your own contract or legal letters when you don't have knowledge of the legislation?

    And hence i already said, your S.I.M service or products are totally non value added.

    But don't worry Chris. I see got a lot of people very interested in the Lowyat forum.

    Good luck and hope you can sleep well at night.

    ReplyDelete
  18. U think u r our nightmare?
    We really sleep well every night.
    Thanks for your concern.

    From all the comments you posted,
    u know nothing about it.
    Is just full of crap & bullshit...

    First ask yourself, have you done a thorough research?
    Have really understand it?
    Just attended one presentation and u thought u know-it-all.
    U r defaming the professionals.

    all this system take a long period to learn and so complicated.
    CIMB spent RM350million! to upgrade their system.
    (refer theStar biz column)
    Bet you never read it before...

    if u really know,u pretty rich now!
    coz AceScube & the bankers absolutely wanna hire u with high salary.

    U too arrogant & over smart.
    Actually, you don't know what happen? And you don't wanna know.
    Pity u...:-(
    We are professionals, and we make things happen.

    "Cheating, Non Value Added, Incorrect, This la, That la"

    "the Planet Earth is so dangerous,
    why don't YOU take a flight to Planet Mars"

    ReplyDelete
  19. Lol. First of all, i didn't attend just the introductory seminar. As a matter of fact, i also attended the seminar to debrief new B.A.O on the product kit. Hence, i am not making any bullshit claim here.

    Defaming professionals here? Can you tell me who are the professionals here? You guys? LOL. Professional marketers and sellers got lar..

    Don't simply pull some article about CIMB RM350 mln system lar. People invest in upgrading their IT processing system and infrastructure, you want come and spin it here. lol. You think need to spend RM350 mln just to change the system how mortgage interest is calculated ahh..lol

    Professionals and make things happen? Make what happens? Con and mislead less informed people got lar..lol

    Anyway, if you think i am defaming you, come and sue me. ^^

    But please go read first the consumer protection act in Malaysia. Pay attention to 'misleading and deceptive conduct'

    Peace o.oV

    ReplyDelete
  20. really thanks for saying we are professional.

    the last three paragraph u really 'defaming' the professionals.

    u didn't say 'us'.
    doctors, lawyers, accountant, and so on.... are also professionals. con & mislead?

    but, won't sue you coz you don't worth it?
    i won't say u despise us coz you don't qualify to say it.

    Selling?
    Everyone is selling everyday.
    Sell idea, advise, service, products & so on.....
    Is just matter of earning income or not.
    Even your parents are 'selling' to support till you well growth...
    U should thanks your parents for selling.

    Till now, u never learn.
    U are pointless.
    Always bla bla bla...

    If u really that good, why don't u do it for yourself?
    Calculate your own ledger & save interest + tenure.
    U said it just like piece of cake.
    Do your own ledger so u could check the O/S balance every month.
    Do it for yourself...

    But u never mention it.
    Why? Coz u cannot.

    Don't tell me, u afraid 'cheating' yourself? Is saving money for yourself. Hahaha...

    A type of guy who pay few hundreds to thousands to attend training/seminar/workshop which take few days to learn & up to few months to understand and then, talk bad about it to show how SMART & GREAT he really are....
    How S****D he is?

    What i really ask & say, U can't even reply it.
    Coz u don't know what u saying.
    If really know, u won't talk nonsense. Ppl say this, U say that.
    Straight to the point.

    the Bankers spent so much to upgrade their system so complicated. And u said excel also can do it! To save interest & tenure from the bankers. hahaha...

    U thought the bankers are just using calculator.
    U really despising them.
    Thn, why don't u be the bankers?
    Guarantee make alot.

    This 'guy' is so arrogant & ignorant.
    We should leave him ALONE......
    Coz he is living in his own world - the One & Only.

    ReplyDelete
  21. First of all, did i said i'm against selling? lol. But doing it in a way that is misleading and deceptive is totally WRONG.

    And no, the 'professionals' is referring to you. It is a response to your earlier comment. Learn to read.

    You won't sue me because you can't. Or else, you will be more in deepshit. I don't even need to hire a lawyer to prove my case in the court against you. ^^

    Yea, my parents are 'selling' to support me (not now though, already start working). But they didn't do it in a DISHONEST way.

    And again, you are the one who miss the main point. Tell me, what's so great about calculating the O/S balance or coming up with an amortisation schedule with exact amount? What value does it add to your client?

    Just answer me one easy question. What really help to reduce the interest or loan tenure? Your schedule or the higher monthly repayment that the client can made on themselves? Lol.

    Please lar. Get the things correct. It's not about a schedule or excel sheet that reduce the tenure and save interest cost. It's about MAKING HIGHER MONTHLY REPAYMENT.

    I don't despise bankers.i didn't even said that. Whether they use calculators is irrelevant to our 'discussion'

    Sigh, you really got no point apart from calling me arrogant, ignorant bla bla bla. Guess you have to do that since you can't counter my argument.

    "we should leave him alone". Lol. But are you doing it now? Guess my blog is a BIG threat to your dishonest business.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I went to the one of the Acescube session. There are many questions that the so called "Senior Adviser & Trainer" cannot answer me. He is only interested and trying to push me to sign-up for the RM2.5k one day course to be a BOA
    I totally agreed with tohff.

    ReplyDelete
  23. It used to be RM500 only to be a B.A.O.

    ReplyDelete
  24. There r 3 types of ppl
    1) ppl who know everything.
    2) ppl who don't know everything.
    3) ppl who don't know what they don't know (pity guys)
    Toh u r one of the million 3in1 very rare. U mention who don't have loans fr banks nowadays? Do u own a hse? hows ur repayment? pay extra or accordingly as bank offer? do u know how much u save on % and tenure? probably u still stay w ur daddy!
    why u dragged by ur father for a biz opp? 1)money not enough need extra income? 2)need solution on existing mortgage? or 3)some topic for ur blog?
    Why Tiger Woods need a coacher beside him? did u see any top golfer play w/out coacher? WHATEVER YOU DO, CAN YOU DO IT PROFESSIONALLY, CORRECTLY AND ACCURATELY? MAKE NO MISTAKES ABOUT IT, OTHER WISE PAY FOR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.
    Sincerely,
    Simon

    ReplyDelete
  25. Lol. Learn to read pls. First of all, the reasons my father dragged me are because

    1. i'm smart
    2. i studied Finance
    3. My father have a quite a number of properties. So saving on interest will be great (if it's true)

    Please use some common sense. This is a personal blog. I didn't expect you guys to come and dig up this topic that was blogged last year. I bet if you continue to do it, this blog will be No.1 search hit for "Acescube"

    And let's repeat the question again. Did your so-called "Professional Advice" add values to your misled client? Don't compare yourself to others who are truly professional. (if so, any Ah Chu or Ah Kow can become a 'professional' by paying RM500 and become a Acescube Business Advisory Officer...lol)

    Since your advice are non-value added, why should i pay? I repeat: It's the HIGHER MONTHLY REPAYMENT that saves the interest, not your stupid schedule.

    Hope you sleep well at night

    ReplyDelete
  26. Kindly stop here, one man may not make any difference. And explaining does not end without acceptence. To have our profession advise we do charge for them, explaining here generates no profit instead just unnecessary.
    It comply to those who needed and accept, does not comply to those who are not.
    Appreciate your valuable concern to the market dear Mr.Blogger but do respect others business, be it as u think it is false or not, we are running it legally, legimately throughout Malaysia. Fellow officers we should not reply to this thread anymore thank you.
    Appreciate everyone's corperation.
    For futher inquiry kindly get back to us or any of our associate. To understand more and be cleared.
    Thank you.
    *No reply is required for this comment*
    Sincerely,
    Chris

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hi Chris, i would appreciate if you could write better. Hard to read.

    I didn't say you all are illegal. But are you guys HONEST? Don't you think your marketing method and presentation material are very MISLEADING and DECEPTIVE?

    ReplyDelete
  28. I really wonder how all these company can survive.Mb out there,there are really so many 'katak di bawah tempurung'.For all these reduction thing,you dun even need to pay a single cent to anybody or pay higher instalment to the bank. You can just talk to your bank yourself to ask them to revise your interest.
    Why pay few thousands to other people when you yourself can do it?Pity to all these people because they know nothing.
    Bear in mind,these 'professionals',they cant help you do any revision to you loan if your loan is Fixed Loan. because if your loan is fixed loan,the bank would not consider to revise your loan,since it's fixed. But for BLR package,definitely you can request the bank to do so:)

    ReplyDelete
  29. HEY! the company Cheat ppl money la..

    Run away with many BAA money..

    BAA is the Associate who paying few thousand dollar eg 20K or 30K.

    BUT end up they all use Law to terminate them and never pay back money to them..

    SCAM!!

    ReplyDelete
  30. This has confirmed what I hv heard
    about this "cheating" business!

    Hv been told that the Agency of the associate has been terminated by the Principal without any mercy. Principal practise double standard and unfairness to the associate which create internal conflicts. The associate has no choice but to close down the business. Very sad case.
    At the end of the day, who has pocketed the money? Agency fees, BAO training fees, case commission,..... etc.
    Who suffered then?
    In this 21st century, people wants to make fast money, therefore, as a consumer you have to be very very careful, otherwise, you will fall into the trap too!

    Good Luck to you.

    ReplyDelete
  31. yeah, fuck them!

    I actually have a strong intention to report them... The way they doing is really ridiculous, not only not helping the client but charge a very high fee.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I naturally decided to check on what Acescube is after I read your blog.

    After doing my full research (no i didn't stop after your blog, nor did I limit myself to blogs), I have to say that while you have a flair for provoking and defaming, what you have written are either misconceptions, half-truths, and forgive this next one: rather narrow-minded.

    I am not going to poke/correct/criticize every incorrect statement you made (I'll do it if you want me to though), but I'll just say this:

    1. I'm not an agent. (Not yet anyway)
    2. This company isn't a scam.
    3. I am glad this company doesn't utilise loopholes, as loopholes can be fixed thus not trustable long term wise.
    4. Since you think it's possible to DIY, do you think you can calculate 99% accuracy for the rest of your tenure? What about 99% for multiple properties? Worse, what about 99% for 10+ million dollar business loans for the rest of your tenure? Do you know that if you so much as calculate wrongly a month, you can lose up to 10k++?

    For a country such as Malaysia where human rights are not as developed, I believe a company who is willing to take care of your asset is most welcome. So what if they charge you 1%? Nothing is free. You may not need their services, but someone out there does.

    P.s - I'm actually quite keen on your reply, but I shan't keep my hopes high.

    ReplyDelete